Founder of production company, Tiny Apples, Julie Pacino is a writer/director/producer. She has written and directed a number of short films that have screened in several cities including Cannes, Hollywood, São Paulo, and New York. As a producer, Julie has worked on a variety of different projects from feature films and music videos to theater productions.
Led by Pacino, with team members Jake Hunter, Eliese Lissner, Robert MacCready, Christopher Botte, Aron Meinhardt and Louis Chieng, Tiny Apples will produce feature films and TV/Web series. Its goal is to push the boundaries of conventional storytelling by creating imaginative content while tapping into the best and brightest of both coasts.
The phone rings at 7pm on the dot. It is Tuesday, May 5th. The clapping outside for the frontline workers provides a nice ambience to start the conversation between Julie Pacino and NOIAFT founder Taylor Taglianetti.
Calling in from the West Coast, Pacino is passionate and savvy. Much like her work, she takes you on a ride and you don’t want to get off.
Congratulations on your new production company! It must be quite the challenge to launch during a pandemic.
Thank you and totally. We officially launched on Valentine’s Day. It just seems from that point on everything started changing. It’s a really interesting time for us because we’re in development on a couple of things and we’re in post production on a couple of shorts. We’ve been super busy throughout this whole pandemic. We’re gearing up for our short, Hard Work, to drop online next Friday. It’s about a production assistant who works on adult film sets. We’re going to drop it on Pornhub with their support and make a splash that way.
Poster for Hard Work premiering May 15, 2020 on pornhub.com.Was it always your intention to distribute Hard Work on Pornhub?
It was not our idea from the jump. Our friend Max Meisel wrote Hard Work; he brought us on to produce it and for me to direct it as a web series. He has a whole outline and Show Bible for more of an episodic concept so we had initially shot it as an episode of this bigger picture that he is developing. It was sitting on the shelf and we knew that physical production wasn’t going to be happening any time soon. Instead of waiting until things resume to shoot more episodes, we figured we would cut it as a one-off short film, a standalone piece. We all got really excited about that because it does play on its own. There’s no real context needed. It’s just a wacky situation that this character gets into so we cut it like that.
One of my partners, Bob MacCready, who does all of our branding, social media, titles, and credits for our work, came up with this really fun ad marketing campaign where we would pose as if we were producing porn. He made these tantalizing poster art pieces in celebration of the short film. As that developed, it was just natural that the Pornhub drop came to be. Obviously, right now, it’s such a funny time for Pornhub. I think they’re doing a great job with their marketing. Everyone’s at home and the stigma around porn has, in a way, been lifted. We just figured we’d jump in on that and not take ourselves too seriously. Put this thing out there in the spirit of adult cinema. That’s not what the piece is necessarily about but, of course, it’s backdrop so we’re just leaning into that. We just want people to be able to look at something and laugh.
Poster for Hard Work premiering May 15, 2020 on pornhub.com.It’s probably the perfect time to launch it on Pornhub as people are probably going there now more than ever, ha! I’m glad you brought up the marketing because when I went on the Tiny Apples Instagram profile, I genuinely thought the film was going to be a very sexy drama. Your film is actually very lighthearted instead. The marketing reminded me of Once Upon A Time… In Hollywood. You wait the whole movie for, SPOILER ALERT… Sharon Tate to be killed, and then you don’t get that at all. Yet, you’re better off for it.
Totally, totally! The film itself, with the exception of a ton of cursing, is definitely PG-13. Nothing explicit happens in it. That’s also part of why we find it funny to go the Pornhub route. There’s only graphic stuff that happens off-camera. We’re just playing with perception. People see porn and project this thing onto it…it becomes this big hush hush. It becomes more of a big deal than it really is. That really excited us about having this Pornhub link. You’re maybe on the edge of your seat and holding your breath the whole time waiting for something to happen that never really comes. It’s just a situational, very straightforward piece. Bob is doing this really provocative title sequence which balances things out.
Well, the credits in all of the films that you’ve shown me are really movies themselves! Really incredible. They’re going to go down in history!
Oh, cool! Thank you! That is all our partner, Bob MacCready. That’s the goal with our end credit sequences. They’re definitely in line with the film, but the idea is that you can watch them on their own and be short films in and of themselves. I’m a big fan of credits. Gaspar Noé is one of my favorite directors. I love what he does with title sequences. I think especially with a short, it’s just a fun opportunity to get everyone their on-screen credit and make a statement with it. People definitely disagree with that when it comes to short films. It’s certainly something we’ve gotten critiqued about. People have told us: “Why do you have a two minute credit sequence for a sixteen minute short film?” The answer is: “Well, they’re cool. Did you enjoy watching? Didn’t you think they were cool? Well, yeah. So then fuck it.” There’s no rule book here to say we can’t do it and if you want to turn our short off as soon as it’s done and you don’t want to watch the titles, then that’s fine. But if you’re sitting in a theater as a part of a shorts programming block, then suck it up and enjoy the beautiful visuals that we put our time into making. Or close your eyes, they’ll be over in a couple minutes.
Absolutely. I think credits are so important. It can take hundreds or thousands of people to make a film. If you can make the end credits or opening credits exciting for people who worked really hard on a project to see their name, why not? For the audience, it’s just an extra couple of minutes to enjoy.
Exactly. Film is so collaborative. None of my shorts would be what they are without every single person. I love that about film. I grew up playing softball and I’m big on team mentality. It’s a total team effort.
How do you choose your team? You seem to work with a lot of the same people, even from your very early works.
I’ve been lucky because the first couple of things I worked on was with this core group of people from the actors, to the producers, to the cinematographers, to the editors. My work is really specific. It’s a style that I found. For my voice as a director, the only way I was able to find that was by collaborating with specific people. For instance, Fern Cozine is an actress in a lot of my work. I remember the first time I heard her read my dialogue and I was just like “Holy shit, yes!” because my dialogue is also pretty specific. Once I hear someone understand my voice, it helps me realize more clearly the tone I’m trying to achieve. Same with my DP, Aron Meinhardt, who is also a partner in Tiny Apples. The first time I worked with him was on Hard Work and he just got my visual language. He added to everything I was doing and really helped show me what I was trying to say. I think the recognition of that mutual, shared perspective is just an intuitive thing for me. Once I feel that with a collaborator, I just want to apply that to everything I am doing. It seems like with every project those relationships get deeper and we peel back these layers. The voice gets clearer and clearer.
In the Tiny Apples mission statement, it says that you aim to produce work that pushes boundaries. That’s clear in the content of Hard Work, but also in the visuals of Connecting the Dots, for instance. The visuals there are so stunning. Felt like Tarantino and Kubrick had a baby!
That’s amazing.
Teaser trailer for Connecting the Dots.
When you’re working on these projects how do you, as a team, decide what you’re going to do next?
I think for us, we definitely want to stay focused because quality over quantity is a big thing. We are not trying to acquire a bunch of different things just for the sake of acquiring them. Our mantra as a company is that we make the movies we would want to see. If it’s something that is brought to us that we just have to see because we would enjoy it and have fun watching it, that’s really the only criteria. With that, it opens us up to a lot of different genres. We call ourselves genre fluid! We have a horror feature in development now that is, tonally, completely different from say, Harmony in Gold, our quirky, but dark dramatic-heavy piece. It’s cool because we have seven different partners, including myself, in the company and everyone has a voice. Everyone has different likes and different things they would want to see. So, first and foremost, would we want to watch this? Second, do we have the capacity to develop or do whatever this thing needs? Again, there’s seven of us so usually we do have the capacity because we’ve got a really good infrastructure for how we get things done, but we’re wide open.
This business right now is at a very strange point because of this pandemic, but I think even before that, it was on this trajectory where the quality of the content is first and foremost. If it’s something that you make and it’s good, then there will be an audience for it. I try to steer away from the formulaic approach where you say, “Okay, who are we targeting? Let’s work backwards from there and make something they would like.” For me, I say, “What would I like?” If I make something, would I buy this? Would I think this is stupid or would I be interested and intrigued by it? For us at least, I think that’s the most authentic way we can approach the business side of things because if you are fortunate enough to take on work you like exclusively, then you are really living the dream. You are doing what you love and having fun doing it. Hopefully, it is generating a profit and the investors are happy. Then everyone wins. The artist gets to make what they want to make that is the most honest and true to themselves. Because of that, the product is good and authentic and people are interested in it. It makes money and the rest falls into place. That’s been my experience with this company over the past couple of years. I know there are many other ways to do it that are good and successful. That’s great and I’m not knocking that in any way. That’s just what our approach has been over these past couple of years and it’s worked out really well for us and our investors.
It seems like your company is similar to A24. They have a great business model, but they also make and distribute some of the most daring, interesting, and challenging works out there.
A24, for sure. Big time fan of them. Neon, as well. I definitely would love to someday grow our business into something similar for sure.
Poster for short film, Harmony in Gold.You have a lot of experience with features, documentaries, music videos and theatre, but I’ve noticed that you work on a lot of shorts. Do you see shorts as being a viable market or do you make shorts with the intention that they are a way to hone your skills or hone a story that eventually will be much longer?
I think it’s a little bit of both. I don’t think shorts on their own are viable. Harmony in Gold is something we shot with the intention of it just being a stand alone short film. I need to hone my craft as a director and for us to continue to crystalize our style. But once we shot it, it turned out better than we could have ever hoped for. Naturally and organically, it became something we’re now developing into a TV series. We have a Show Bible and now a sample episode, if you will, that can accompany that. We can show you that not only is this a TV show that has a cool story with awesome characters, but here’s this sample of something super stylized we made that gives you a sense of the tone.
Tone is something we feel we have going for us as a company. It’s the “Why Us?” This is why we should be the ones that get to make this thing. So when it comes to short films, it’s just a great opportunity to be able to do that at a “no stakes level” where there’s room for mistakes. You get to come away from a short film with a product that you can definitely leverage into something bigger, but also learning lessons and applying them to the next one. Our focus at the start of our company was short-format content because most of it was things I was directing because, as you mentioned, I came up through production. I have about ten years of production experience. As a director, it was and it is important for me to really make sure I feel comfortable enough before taking on a feature.
The way to do that is to bang out as many shorts as possible. It’s so hard to take something that’s written and have a vision for it and then make it look the way that you envisioned it to look. That process is, at least in my experience, the only way to get better at taking something that you wrote and turning it into something that looks exactly how you wanted it to look. It’s just practice. The more you do it, the more you figure out how to communicate what you want to the people that you’re working with to achieve that vision.
I definitely feel like with our most recent short, Harmony in Gold, we really achieve that in an exciting way where it actually looks better than the vision I had for it. Now we’re deciding what will be my first feature. We are also looking at other features we are strictly producing, in addition to the shorts.
I think it’s a great time to at least experiment with shorts. I know that director Ted Melfi just sold his film for $20 million dollars to Netflix just based on a trailer he cut together. That’s a great way to sell a film. Now, with Quibi, I think they’re going to be the example and the guinea pig for the industry to see how short form content can really succeed. So my next question for you would be…does the type of screen, whether that’s in a theater, on an iPad, what have you, affect the way you’re telling stories at all?
That’s a good question. Yes, I want everyone to see my work on a big screen in a theater with surround sound. I strive to make cinematic work even if it’s a short film. I want it to be as visually immersive as possible and the best way to do that is to go sit in a theater and watch it, especially with an audience. That’s definitely always my aim. Watching content on a phone, I feel like everybody winds up doing that nowadays anyway. It makes me feel a little bit uneasy because I would prefer that you see it on the biggest screen possible with the best sound possible and also all in one sitting. The idea of someone pausing something I made to go make a sandwich, and then coming back to it, upsets me. At the same time, there’s nothing that I can really do to control that. So, I’m starting to open up to the new model. I think Hard Work is really our first endeavor into that because that’s definitely made to be consumed online, whether it’s on your phone or on your computer. It’s going to be our first real test to see how it feels, but in the grand scheme of things, who knows? Who knows what will happen with this virus? Will theaters ever be a thing again? It would be heartbreaking if they weren’t. Especially on the feature level, I want people to be in a movie theater watching my stuff in the same way that I would want to be in a movie theater watching someone else’s thing. It’s just the best way to experience a film, especially with an audience.
Poster for short film, Nowhere to Go.It’s interesting what you had mentioned about people pausing a film to make a sandwich because I think what’s interesting about your work is that it’s very much an experience. It would be different and, you would lose a lot more, by pausing one of your films versus a straightforward narrative. I would say a lot of your work is metaphorical or even open-ended, in some senses. A lot of it can be left up to interpretation, especially with a film like Nowhere to Go. There’s a lot of different ways you can think about it. Is that your goal…to make your work mean something different to each viewer?
Yeah. I think Nowhere to Go is a great example. I love allegorical pieces like Darren Aronofsky’s movie, Mother!
Yeah, that’s a crazy one!
That movie is insane, but it’s a biblical allegory! At the end of it, you have a feeling. I like making stuff that’s open for interpretation that will spark conversation. I think the one thing that’s really important to me is strong characters and at least some sort of narrative story that the audience can grasp onto. Nowhere to Go is a really good example because Sheri Sussman who wrote the script for it made it a very straightforward piece about these two characters that meet in the wilderness and they’re both struggling with suicide. They learn a little bit about each other and that’s that. Very slice of life. That’s what I loved about the script. If that’s the foundation that you’re starting with, you have free rein to explore off the path. I’ve fortunately never struggled with suicide or anything like that so what’s my access point? For me, it was making a movie about a feeling, that hopeless feeling, that purgatory-like state where you feel like nothing is changing. For me and my collaborators, we all had a very clear sense of what the story was and what the rules were of this universe. We have our own interpretation that’s very clear and that we all agreed on. It’s important to have that when you approach making something that’s going to be metaphorical. From there, great art should stimulate conversation and people should have opinions and argue over it. I love that.
David Lynch is a good reference. If you take Twin Peaks...the show goes to these wacky places and there’s multi dimensions and there’s all this crazy stuff happening, but at its core, it’s about a murder mystery! It’s about this detective coming to this strange town, trying to solve a murder. I love watching something that can be, at its very simplest, a really interesting narrative, but then as you look deeper into it, discovering that there’s more to it. That’s interesting moviemaking…art that is almost infinite. You can rewatch it over and over again, and find new things. It’s a treasure hunt.
As a director, are you a big movie nerd like Tarantino and Scorsese? Stealing from old classics, but putting your experimental spin on it? Or are you lifting from other things other than film? I know you majored in English in college.
I’m a huge film buff. Obviously, I grew up in a family that encouraged that. You said it with Stanley Kubrick and Tarantino. I’m a huge fan of David Lynch. I love Tim Burton. I said Gaspar Noé. I totally borrow from these amazing filmmakers. I analyze things that they do that resonate with me and then figure out a way to apply it to my own work. Use those elements as tools to help me tell my stories. As a writer, I just love the rhythmic pacing to David Mamet’s work so when I’m writing dialogue, I try to let it flow and be a rhythmic process. Tarantino’s dialogue, as well, there’s a certain freedom to it. You feel like his characters can, and will, talk about what they want and somehow it serves the story. Even if it’s people who aren’t super established and famous, I’m inspired. My friends, friends of friends, things I see at film festivals…good work inspires more good work. If I see something and it inspires me, that’s usually a great starting point for a project I’m going to work on.
Was there any experience or particular film that really gave you that confidence to say, “Hey, this is what I want to do professionally?”
There’s a couple. One of the first movies I saw that really woke me up as a filmmaker was Requiem for a Dream.
That’s such an interesting movie. I even have it in my notes because it reminds me of Connecting the Dots a lot!
Oh yeah, totally. I think I saw it when I was 12 or 13. I just remember seeing it and saying, “Whoa….just wow!” A Clockwork Orange, too. The way that Stanley…I call him Stanley like he’s my…
Your bro!
You know, Stan. I love the way he was able to just create this hyper real world, but somehow keep me, as the viewer, engaged that these things were really happening. That’s also why I love Tim Burton. Growing up, A Nightmare Before Christmas also had a big impact on me. Recently, I was thinking about how I used to always go to musicals. My mom would bring me to Les Mis and Phantom of the Opera. I’ve seen those plays 30 or 40 times in my whole life. Going to the theatre at young age had a big impact. Also, oh my God, have you seen The Passion of Joan of Arc?
Still from 1928’s The Passion of Joan of Arc.It’s been on my list forever. In fact, it’s on my quarantine list. I’m trying to hit up all of the classics I’ve missed. From going to film school, I have definitely seen clips. Incredible cinematography. Those are truly unforgettable cinematic moments.
It’s so ahead of its time! That movie was made in 1928! It holds up to today. I think it’s timeless and one of the most amazing performances you’ll ever see. Definitely bump it to the top of your list.
Oh, I definitely will and since you like Darren Aronofsky, he produced a film that my friend just reviewed for me. It’s called Pacified and it’s playing as a part of the virtual Tribeca Film Festival.
I’m going to write that down!
Besides those personal experiences and movies that you mentioned, do you think that you have any innate, personal qualities that make you cut out for this line of work? You mentioned that you played softball and you have a team mentality. Is there anything about yourself that makes you say, “I’m totally a director?”
Yeah. I really love connecting with people and collaborating. I definitely think that’s just in my DNA. My favorite part of the process is rehearsing. I love being with actors and really digging into the intention behind the lines and boiling it down. I could rehearse forever. We rehearsed for a month for all the shorts you saw.
Making films is like growing a plant. It’s constant and changing. As a director, it’s such a grind. It’s a daily grind. There are parts, especially in the edit process, you’ve seen it a bazillion times, but we’re going to go through this thing again and we’re going to frame fuck it and by the end of frame fucking this fifteen minute short, if it’s going to be one percent better, that’s what we aim to achieve. Growing up with this athletic background, I was really serious about softball. Listen, from the time I was five years old, one of my earliest memories was being on the set of The Devil’s Advocate. Being on that set and seeing that burned up body and looking around, you say, “Whoa! This is like an alternate reality. This is amazing. Where am I right now?” So, growing up, I always had a camera in my hand. I really was always super intrigued about creating this different dimension that me and my friends could play in. Everyone would want to play outside and I was like, “No! We’re going to make a movie. This is what’s going to happen and you’re going to play this part.” We would all have fun, capture it on tape, edit it and then we would watch it and all laugh. Making a movie just continues to give back always in every phase of the process. For some reason, growing up around it, it’s always something I’ve had a knack for.
With the athletic side of things comes the discipline that I think it really takes to direct. That is, with any sport, you have to work at it every single day and you get a little better and a little better. The big game comes and all of that preparation pays off. I think film is really similar because in pre-production or development…you put the time in…you beat it up and you re-write. You prep it and you think about all of the problems that could happen. You make back-up plans for your back-up plans and put all of this effort in and then you get on set and it’s like the championship game! We’ve earned the right to be here. We know that and now we can just have fun and paint together.
You said that quite beautifully, I have to say! I love the analogy there. You’re so right. Film is so unforgiving if you don’t prepare. You also produce besides writing and directing so your producing brain comes in. A film is made in pre-production. You have to be there on that day and anticipate every single damn problem that could ever arise. Otherwise, it’s your fault.
One hundred percent. Even on the creative side, a film is made in pre-production. I’ve seen a lot of movies that I feel like they rushed it! It’s not ready to get made until it’s ready to get made. You have to rewrite it a thousand times. I believe you have to rehearse the hell out of it so that we’re all on the same page about this world that we’re stepping into so when we’re rolling, we just forget about all that and be present in the moment because we trust that we know that all of the work we put in is going to pay off. We’re going to be right here, right now. Then the camera will capture that presence and authenticity. You have to. And not only do you have to as if it’s some sort of prescription, I believe you should love that! As an athlete, I loved waking up and doing a thousand reps on the batting tee. I love honing my craft. I love every part of it. It’s fun to me. If you’re not having fun doing it, then you have to find a different path of less resistance. Challenges are fun. I’m not saying that it’s not stressful, but I like solving problems and figuring out creative solutions to problems. It’s a great question that you asked…how do you know that this is what you’re supposed to do? And I really believe that it is loving the day-to-day grind. Truly loving the process, enjoying it, being stressed out, being challenged. It’s great! I welcome that. At the end of the day, we’re making movies, we’re not operating on people. It should be fun.
Exactly. Also, we’re at such an advantage now that we can shoot digital. There’s no excuse.
Great point.
I think that’s why the quality of films, on the whole, were so much better when movies were shot on film. You had to come on set and know: well, we can only use this much film. You better know what you’re doing. Now, we can spend as much time as possible to make our films. There’s also so many different outlets to exhibit our work. We can spend years to make something perfect, if we want to.
Now you can have your cake and eat it too. To your point, you can prep as if you’re shooting on film and then be on set and not be shooting on film. Not only are you super prepared, but you can improv a little bit. It just opens you up, it’s so freeing. That’s a really good point.
Well, it’s been such a pleasure getting to know you. One last question, what does Tiny Apples mean?
Tiny Apples was a name that was conceived on the set of Connecting the Dots. I planted a lot of different tiny apples on that set because I liked this whole Garden of Eden vibe. One of the things on set was this little pillow that was made to look like a mini sack of apples. Our friend, Chad, who played Derek in Connecting the Dots, is a renowned male model. It was his first short film. We were all on set and it was a particularly stressful moment and I was trying to figure something out with my DP. Chad comes up to me with that pillow and completely serious and totally innocent says, “Hey, Julie, are there little tiny apples in here?” I sort of laughed at him and then I read his face and he was being serious. I said, “Chad, no, what do you mean? It’s a pillow. What are you talking about? There’s no such thing…what are you talking about? Get away from me, haha!” [Joking] It became this moment that let the pressure out. Everyone laughed. It became this reminder. Hey, let’s just have fun. We are stressing way too hard right now. This is a resistant path. That moment stuck out. Tiny Apples just reminds us to have fun and that is our recipe for success. Obviously as a New Yorker with the Big Apple, there’s a fun tie in there, too, but the origin story is really where it’s at. Focus on the work, have fun doing it, and the rest will follow.
Hard Work drops on Pornhub on May 15th, 2020.
For more on Tiny Apples, check out their website (http://tinyapplesnyc.com/) and follow them on Instagram @tinyapplesnyc. Also, check out these additional teaser trailers for Julie’s other work:
Wow!!!!! Such a great interview. Love her work ethic and her passion for filmmaking. Where can I see her films?
Follow @tinyapplesnyc on Instagram for viewing details!
Very fascinating interview! Looking forward to seeing their films.
It is so refreshing to hear a young filmmaker say that a movie belongs in a movie theatre, on the biggest screen possible, with the best sound and with an audience to share it with…and that it should never be interrupted by someone getting up to make a sandwich! There are so many filmmakers who are so afraid to offend the streaming services that they’re afraid to say the same. Movies were made for movie theatres, series were made for televisions. Can’t wait to see a Julie Pacino in a movie theatre.
Is there a way to watch the film on a different website? Sounds interesting.
We believe there will be an alternate viewing platform available. Might be a good idea to direct this inquiry to @tinyapplesnyc on Instagram!